By: DSCUBED




Alright, Satoru Iwata has just finished his speech at GDC and towards the end of the speech we got a quick glimpse of a Zelda Title called Zelda Spirit Tracks. It looks to be a train-centric game that will be released for the DS later this year.



I can't say that I was there, but here is what Joystiq had to say about it:

10:10AM Remember when they said there wouldn't be a new Zelda game announced today? THEY LIED!

We've got Celda link steering a train, instead of his usual aquatic ride. The train has a cannon, like Phantom Hourglass's ship, and it appears to control similarly, with action concentrated on the bottom of the screen. It's a DS title, "tentatively" titled The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks" and it will be available later this year.

I will be trying to dig up more on this title and will be posting new info as edits below!

Wow! Who woulda' thunk it?

Source 1

EDIT 1: Evidently a trailer was shown of the new Zelda, but since video recording was barred from the conference (aside from the first 5 minutes) we don't have video of it. Maybe Nintendo will post it up soon. Also, here is an image from IGN of the title screen:


EDIT 2: Yes! Finally! Joystiq has posted a 9-photo album with photos from the trailer!



More pictures here

EDIT 3: Yes! Someone managed to film the trailer for it at the Keynote. I'll try to get a better quality one later!



EDIT #4 Alright! I finally got a hold of the real trailer!




I have also hosted it as a .mp4 file:
Download the 12.3 MB .mp4 trailer here!

is there not one photo of the trailer on the entire internet??

@Mwatt_7

Yes, Check out EDIT #2

Well, it doesn't appear to be a spin-off. I'm hoping it's a sequel to TMC. Otherwise it'll probably be YET another Toon Link, and I'm sick of him.

If it turns out to be TMC Link I'm hoping he gets the Triforce, because that'd support my timeline theory.

I hope this doesn't mean they're making Zelda more.. casual.. It looks kinda silly, but it's cute, just as any cell shaded Zelda should be, I'll definitely play it.

It actually looks mildly entertaining. I'm glad that they're veering off from the vast ocean travle. I'm alittle worried about the train though. I hope that wistle has some helpful purpose. In my opinion though I think that they are getting too close to a modern day time.

Genius. Train tracks are the perfect metaphor to reflect exactly how linear Zelda has become.

It's disturbing how people have such strong opinions (usually against) VA and orchestrated music without really knowing too much about it.

Orchestrated music is superior to programmed (aka MIDI) music in almost every way. It sounds better (not just more epic), more real, and helps in setting the mood more efficiently. Technically speaking, the problem is not the format (midi vs audio) but the virtual instruments in the console that produces that characteristical 80's sound. Mostly all of today's pop rock music uses top notch midi gear to make music, and it sounds great. Most people can't even tell the difference.

One of the main arguments in midi vs orchestrated, is that music cannot change based on what happens on screen. This is wrong. Any dj can crossfade 2 (or more) songs and adjust the beat and pitch (and sometimes vst's) in real time. And there is no reason why that cannot be automated and programmed into a game. It would cost money and some effort to be done, but it sure is possible.

Now for VA vs text, there is a difference between script and VA. The argument about a "silent Link" has nothing to do with VA. Link is not silent. He keeps moaning with every sword attack and keeps yelling in pain when he gets hurt. However, he does not have dialogues, so the voice actor playing Link's part has nothing to say except those noises. Adding full VA for the game does not interfere with the decision of giving lines to Link.

Furthermore, a game like Zelda TP, was begging for VA. There is very little difference between what Midna did and full VA.

The real issue in implement VA and orchestrated music is money, time, and storing space. Hours of high quality audio might not leave free space for the game in a DVD.

YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!


Looks badass...that's all there is to it, heh.
Im totally fucking tire dof people bitching about everything. Nothing they announce anymore, ever, seems to even slightly cheer up people. Its ALWAYS met with crazy pissed off angry fans. ALWAYS. My god, its not the end of the world, just stfu and enjoy the damn game.

(btw, not here, just in general)
No, this doesnt mean there is no Wii Zelda!
We're getting TWO!

WTF is so wrong with this?!?!?!??! Jesus christ man...people were saying how little there is for the DS right now, we get a Zelda game for it, and its all "im worried! I dont like this! It sucks! Im so skeptical! WAAH! WAAH! WAAAAAAAAH!"

Moder age? I'm sorry, its a TRAIN...in a MEDIEVAL setting...We had a steamboat in PH, but everything else was primitive.
Do you really think the next Zelda will have cars and computers? -_-

Hopefully a Wii zelda is coming along with it.

Don't forget also that there were tracks in some dungeons in some Zelda games (especially in The Minish Cap), so this isn't really straying too far from the Zelda universe.

that looks like a fun Zelda game. when's it gonna be out?

@midnaslover

It is supposed to be out before the end of the year.

Why does Nintendo insist on making the series that practically invented open-world gameplay more and more linear? That dungeon map looks just as hideous as the ones from PH. I won't pass judgement on the train yet, but dear god the title's bad.

I find it very curious that Nintendo today didn't show the upcoming wii-zelda, but a new ds-one instead. But a new Zelda is always a reason to celebrate.

Let's see: It's the lamest Zelda title sofar, but what's most important is the game itself. As Santuli said there is nothing wrong with the train. We had a steamboat before. And it is not a modern age train, keep that in mind.

However, it looks like the train makes the game more lineair. Hopefully that's not the case.

What's more to say...we saw a new item wich looks like a propeller-shaped plant, but it looks like it has the same use as the deku leaf. My favorite part was the boss fight. Stupid Ign calling it a crab. It was obviously a beetle.

By the way: Who said the changes where low we would ever see a on-land zelda with windwaker graphics? Well, it looks like we get one now. But it also looks like the majority of the land will be crossed with the train and not with our feed.

As for the whole trailer: I am not totally blown away, but it's zelda. I am sure it will be fun.

But maybe we can place the tracks ourself? That way the whole train-travelling will be similar to the ship- travelling in Phantom hourglass.

OH MY F_CKING GOD!!!!! What the hell is wrong with Miyamoto?
Did he fall out of the DE-DE-DE tree, and hit every branch on the way down?!?!
A Cartoon-Cel-Train-themed Zelda Game!? One word...PATHETIC!!!
I am now officially ashamed of him & his company.
When the hell is this BRAIN-DEAD moron going to wakeup and realize he's now in the 21st Century?
If other compaines can make games Like Final Fantasy, Star Ocean, God of War
(nevermind RPG, I'm not even going there)...
I'm talking about INSANE Landscapes, Sick Graphics, Magical Effects that blow the mind.
Doesn't this man realize that he could potentially make the GREATEST,
SICKEST, DARKEST, HARDEST, ACTION-PACKED Zelda game of ALL TIME (Possibly
the GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME) IF HE ONLY TRIED!?!?!
Instead we get Pokemon, Pikman, and the same old Mario spoofs (Tennis, Golf, Baseball, etc).
A 12 year old could SH-T out a game a millions times better then this old fart.
HEY Miyamoto!!! It's not 1989 anymore! IT'S 2009!!!!!! WAKE UP!!!
Twilight Princess is just the tip of the iceburg.
It was good, but you could do a 1000 times better, and be the greastest of all time,
if you just tried. It's time to stop making these boring, stupid, child games and
make a new Zelda game worthy of it's predecesors.
Take it in a new direction, make it fly, pull out all the stops, modernize it.
Your killing it's legacy, and your breaking our hearts!!!

I don't think it's fair to judge a game this harshly based off of a two-minute trailer with that being the only information being out about the game, aside from a 2009 release date. At least wait until more information comes out about it before you decide if you're going to like it or not. Heck, even just TRY it once it's released--you may find that you like it. You never know.

lol, sirvin, epic fail dude...like, wow...

You're probably older than 12...probably. Go shit out a game thats a million times better, learn how to spell "iceberg", and then I might actually concede to your point :P

For once, a post of this sort made me laugh! Man, I had such a good day today, not even this sort of attitude has angered me, lol. I usually get so insanely frustrated at these posts, but I got some lol's out of it.

"Pikman"

Probably a Pikmin with a cape.

Now that made me laugh!

Link's turned into Sho from TWEWY! INFINITY!

laaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeee! :(

Well kiddies, link traveled across vast oceans to find a land suitable for a new hyrule and he's done it. Now it's time to rape the natives and take their land in exchange for a fucking bead.
I joke but i'll still buy it the day it comes out.

@sirvin

Hey hey hey now, calm down buddy. You should be glad that we're even getting a new Zelda game possibly this year. It's fans like you that make me ashamed of my fandoms.
---

A new Zelda game is a new Zelda game to me. If it'll suck, so what? Each of them are fun and unique in their own ways. It's why I love this series.

And I'm glad that they've decided to expand their horizons by adding trains. It's rather unexpected but hey at least it's something different from the same old same old.

It looks like a cute game, that's my final word.

@ Derpbutt

Attaching the name "Zelda" to it is the ONLY thing this game has going for it. Are you telling me you would actually by this game if it wasn't a "Zelda" game?

Alright look. I'm all for creativity, but enough is enough.

Could the game be fun to play? Sure.
Is it creative? Yes.

But coming from the quality and depth of Twilight Princess, does this new "Zelda" appear to be a lame attempt?.......YES!

I mean what's next, a "Zelda" Airplane game? A "Zelda" Space Adventure?

The reason I liked Zelda so much was the Dungeons, the monsters, the supernatural magic, the multiple dimensions (Light/Dark/Spirit Words), the magical time travel, the Medeviel design behind the whole thing.

To me that's what made Zelda, ZELDA. Am I wrong? Tell me I'm wrong...

To me this new game is just another sad attempt to change things up yet again.

I want them to go forward, not backward, and certainly not sideways.

Please hold your judgments on the game until it comes out. I personally have not been disappointed by a Zelda game before (not counting Philips CDI). Why are so many people bashing it? Sure it may not be the exact Zelda you want, but I can guarantee that it will still be an amazing game that most anyone will have a blast playing. So what if he is on a train, that is just a method of transportation, the dungeons are still going to be amazing and I'm sure everything else will be. So in conclusion, give the game a chance. If you have enjoyed the Zelda games of the past then I am sure you will enjoy this Zelda adventure.

Here's to saying the obvious.

It's a DS title. Calm down.

YEAH!!! oh and im sure it wont be sequel to phantom hourglass

Hey for everyone who's pretty much sulking, at least the game is for DS, which means there is a chance that they're simultaneously working on a main-console (Wii) release as we speak, and it will be non-cell graphics.

Anyhow, it's too early to pass judgment on the game, but since the title says "tracks," I'm pretty sure trains will play a significant part.

GARBAGE!!!!!!!!
this isn't zelda. i still to this day do not consider these cell-shaded games a real legend of zelda.....HORSE-SHIT!!!

I was really hoping for a Wii title.
This looks like it could be fun, but only as a pleasant distraction. I think people were hoping for something more...full featured. Oh well. At this rate, we might need to wait until the next gen to get another full-fledged console Zelda.

If you think this is bad, small fry, then you had better take a look at THIS:
http://www.perezstart.com/retro/new-zelda-game-revealed-zelda-odoru-no-link/1688/

"But coming from the quality and depth of Twilight Princess, does this new "Zelda" appear to be a lame attempt?.......YES!

I mean what's next, a "Zelda" Airplane game? A "Zelda" Space Adventure? "

ITS NOT A FUCKING TRAIN GAME!!!!!!

WTF is all this ridiculous idiotic judgment about?!
Did we call TWW and PH sailing games?? NO, so why the FUCK do you think this game is about riding a fucking train?!?! Wtf is your logic here????? good lord, man, use your head!

Yea, no, nvm, you're right. THis Zelda is probably all about driving a train. No magic, no items, no dungeons, no nothing. That castle was just a drawing, by the way, and Link's sword is a hybrid gun. The shield is actually an energy shield powered by electricity, not magic. You can also get atomic bombs rather than the old lame ones. -_-



"I was really hoping for a Wii title.
This looks like it could be fun, but only as a pleasant distraction. I think people were hoping for something more...full featured. Oh well. At this rate, we might need to wait until the next gen to get another full-fledged console Zelda."

Despite the fact that they CONFIRMED they were working on two games, one for each platform? Oh no, that cant be it. Lets keep bitching instead, shall we? We want moar, but this is not enough.
Unless its a "full-fledged" Zelda for the Wii, Nintendo will never do anything right!

No one actually expected anything out of them, seeing their "track record" in 08, so please, dont come up with this BS that you had incredible high hopes.

Instead we got an amazing sotrage solution for the Wii, and we get a new Zelda for the DS...why in the fucking world are people bitching??


Trust me, once that new Wii Zelda game comes out, there WILL be people that wil lstill bitch because its not what they imagined.

Apparently Nintendo cant do anything and geta nice nod from most of its "fans".
If they give you a small tease, they'll get their heads ripped apart because people will start assuming ridiculous shit (OMG! ITS AN ON-RAIL SHOOTER WITH TRAINS!!!!! WTF?!?!??!?!?!?), so unless they explain fully what the game will be all about, people will just always assume the ridiculous worst.

Funny too, cuz I distinctly remember lots of people asking for just a screenshot and they;d be happy. I laugh at those fools.

@Santuli

I don't think that omnomnom was really "bitching" about Spirit Tracks. He/she was just stating their opinion. I too was a little disappointed. Yes, I know that they're working on a Zelda Wii, I was just wishing that it would come out first, instead of getting two DS games. I don't have a DS and certainly don't have money for one, so I'll have to wait until the Wii one comes out. And I really want my Zelda fill, and replaying all my old ones over and over again isn't doesn't really cut it anymore.

And maybe people will bitch about Zelda Wii, maybe they won't. We just have to see if Nintendo gives the fans what they want. I know that's not always the best thing, either. When Wind Waker came out, everybody bashed it and thought it would be absolutely horrible. But it turned out just fine. Maybe Spirit Tracks will do the same thing, but I'll never know for myself because, as stated above, I have no DS. We're just going to have to wait until it comes out. So let's just try to be patient like the good Zelda fans that we are.

Underneath my rant and my anger vent, that's what I tried to say. PATIENCE. Its indeed a virtue.

Nintendo will probably never be able to give their fans what they want because we're usch a divided and diverse group. You'll have the ones that will always bitch because they will only expect them to make the perfect little Zelda game that they picture in their minds, and nothing else.

I always just buy and enjoy the Zelda games they make. Some I like more than others, but instead of just making myself get so worked up over something that's not worth it...its just dumb.

I just meant, every game that comes out wont be outdoing the previous one. Every game is different and every game tries something new. You might not like some of those experiments, but eventually you'll find the one you like the most. Its ridiculous to bitch about everything though, there is NO point. It will accomplish NOTHING at all, so why bother?

Instead, if people calm down a bit more, let their minds be a bit more open to these things then maybe they'll enjoy the games more. You don't have to like them, but please...the pessimism, the bitching..tone it down!
It makes online communities more unpleasant to visit, to be honest.

Example: I feel much less compelled to visit the boards of the sites I usually go to in the past few days. I just get tired of reading this sort of crap, and its the same ALL the time. At E3, at the Fall Summit, over the holidays, now at GDC. Next up is the next E3 where Nintendo will once again make people so mad that they will, once again, talk about how they will leave them forever and sell their Wiis and how all they look for in Ninty is Zelda and maybe Mario and that's it and...agh!

@ eveyone that says SP is lame: im not so sure bout wut u think, Miyamoto is probably taking his time to make a better Zelda game. im not saying that you're WRONG. im saying Miyamoto is probably stepping down off the plate from TP.he's probably taking it back a few steps. he probably WILL make a new Zelda game. one that IS better than TP,or TWW,or PH. it'll just take some time that's all.

I think people are too focused on the train aspect of the game. This game is no more about trains than OoT is about horses. It's just the main mode of transport in the game. Like the steamboat in PH. It's going to be an amazing game, just you watch!

im still waiting for nintendo to take my back to koholint island...

Well, Ph also was a dream (or was it?) and there was also a whale. Maybe Ph was just a retelling of La. I know that for the rest the games where totally different but you know how it goes with legends. They add and remove details during the ages.

PH couldnt have been a total dream because Tetra and Link experienced the same thing. The Ghost Ship was real, and Lineback's ship could be seen at the end, once they "returned"

Its not a retelling at all. Except for the concept of "Did it really happen?", it was nothing like LA

nice.. next it will be a blimp...

Maybe Tetra and Link experienced the same dream at the same time. I heard that this is possible sometimes, but I don't know if this is true.

"Its not a retelling at all. Except for the concept of "Did it really happen?", it was nothing like LA"

As I said before the dream-theme and the whale are the only similarities. But through the ages the story of La could have changed a lot.

A other explanation could be this: While I do not really believe in a timeline, (let alone a split-timeline) lets say for a moment that there is a split-timeline (The last time nintendo spoke of the timeline they said there was a split-timeline anyway). Maybe La is in one timeline and Ph in the other. Who knows.

"But through the ages the story of La could have changed a lot...Maybe La is in one timeline and Ph in the other. Who knows. "

Really, I don't see any significance in any of that. What changed through the ages?
And what does being in different timelines have anything to do? Its like opposite...no not, opposite, that implies they're related. DIFFERENT dimensions. They're completely mutually exclusive. What happens on one side has no effect on the other side. And saying it COULD really doesnt make for a good argument.

"What happens on one side has no effect on the other side. And saying it COULD really doesnt make for a good argument"

Well, you never know. And don't you find it suspicious that in the child-timeline Ganondorf kills the Water-Sage, while in the adult-timeline Hyrule floods?

As I said earlier a split-timeline doesn't make sense because if you go back in time the future-events didn't happen. Back then your answer was: Maybe it can happen in that world. Well, in that case a event of one timeline affecting a event in the other can happen. Why not?

"And don't you find it suspicious that in the child-timeline Ganondorf kills the Water-Sage, while in the adult-timeline Hyrule floods?"

O_O

NO! It has absolutely nothing to do with anything! Did you find it suspicious that all the sages from OoT died except the Earth and Wind ones, who we had never learned off until now? Does that matter? It makes absolutely no sense, Henrie. There's no relation at all except that the sage Ganondorf killed was of the element of Water and rain is also water...wow...amazing -_-
I wouldn't have believe Nintendo was such genius.

"As I said earlier a split-timeline doesn't make sense because if you go back in time the future-events didn't happen."

I...i don't even know what to say to that. Yes, if you go back to the past, the future hasnt happened yet...ok. And.....

"Back then your answer was: Maybe it can happen in that world."

Back when was that my answer to what??????

"Well, in that case a event of one timeline affecting a event in the other can happen. Why not? "

...I dont see any sort of argument for it being so. Seriously you cant just say "oh it could happen" and the answer to being asked why is "why not?" That's just ridiculous.

Whether you can understand a split-timeline or not, it doesnt matter. Whether you "believe" it or not, it doesnt matter. Its much my opinion on Evolution. Its there. It exists. If you dont "believe" it, its your loss. Its not a matter of believing, just accepting.

And as it is, considering the rules of time in fantasy worlds, no...there is no logical reason why that should work. You haven' been able to even explain HOW that can happen. You just pointed to some very very VERY vague "relations" between the two timelines and expected that to be proof that its "possible". It really shows nothing at all. The fact that you can't even explain it just shows how unlikely it is.

"I...i don't even know what to say to that. Yes, if you go back to the past, the future hasnt happened yet...ok. And....."

Well, you say it yourself. If Adult link went back to the past, the events of the sages locking up Ganondorf into the dark realm never happened. So The windwaker could not have happened too, since it tells about Ganondorf escaping the dark realm.

"Back when was that my answer to what??????"

We had a argument about the split-timeline before. I said it totally messes with my brain, while you said: "It's a fantasy world. Maybe time works different in that world. Maybe a split-timeline is possible in that world"

"The fact that you can't even explain it just shows how unlikely it is"

If you talk about the timeline you have to take many things with a grain of salt. That is because:

A: Miyamoto is not that interested into the stories, he cares more about the gameplay.

B: Miyamoto probably didn't even think of a timeline when creating the first few titles.

C: Nintendo always creates the gameplay BEFORE the actual story. In other words they quickly wrap a story around the gameplay without thinking deep about the story-connections to the other titles.

D: Nintendo employees have changed their minds about the order of the games very often. But some of their words could have been lost in translation. There last statement though is that there is a split-timeline.

E: Aonouma cares more about the overall story, but I think Miyamoto prevends him from really tying the games together. What he does though is putting interesting tit-bits into the games (like Ganondorf killing the water-sage) that makes us speculate about a timeline.

If you pen every detail down it is impossible to create a timeline. My heart says there is a timeline and I love to speculate about it from time to time, but my head says there isn't.

But lets assume there is a split-timeline, it could go like this (everything taken with a pinch of salt):

Mc: Vaati introduced

Fs: Tells in the beginning of a event we haven't seen in any game (Vaati only kidnapping maiden). But those events could have happened after Mc, but before Fs.

FSA: Tells of Vaati kidnapping Zelda AND maiden. The gerudo are still friendly at that point in time. Appearance of the first Ganondorf (blue beast Ganon).

Alttp: Same blue beast Ganon, also with trident.

La: Plays after Alttp because of the "Ganon with trident" and "Agahnim" phantom.

Oot child ending Oot adult ending

Mm: Link goes to termina...

Ww: Link was in termina so he didn't return. Ganondorf killed the water-sage in Tp. Both events lead to the gods flooding Hyrule.

Tp: ...Wich leads to Ganondorf and the gerudo getting locked up in the the twilight realm.

Ph: A journey for wisdom, just as La. Also with a dream theme.

Ooa/Oos: Koume and Kotake (who still live) try to revive blue beast Ganon.

Zelda 1: Hundreds of years later. South Hyrule. Why there is so much land I don't know.


Zelda 2: North Hyrule. Still much water, but the islands are growing together.

If Spirit tracks takes place hundreds of years after Ph, it could take place before Zelda 1 or after Zelda 2. It depends of the amount of water in the kingdom.

Ok, this was a bit messy. Here's the order without the explanation:

Mc
Fs
FSA
Alttp
La
Oot child ending Oot adult ending
Mm Ww
Tp Ph
Ooa/Oos Zelda 1
Zelda 2

As for the mirror in Fsa: It could have been the same mirror as the Twilight mirror, since only Midna can destroy the mirror truly (The mirror cannot exist after Tp). But Fsa tells of a dark tribe that was trapped inside the mirror. If you follow my order though, the story of Fsa doesn't tell about the gerudo being trapped in the mirror, but maybe a other tribe. That way there could be 2 tribes trapped inside the mirror.

Of course I missed many important things (and you don't believe it anyway) but those are my 2 cents on the matter for now!

Ah, man! My order is messed up again! Here is my last try:

Mc, Fs, Fsa, Alttp, La, Oot (child ending), Mm, Tp, Ooa/Oos

Oot (adult ending), Ww, Ph, Z1, Z2

By the way: Ooa/Oos could also take place after La assuming that Koume and Kotake already did life before Oot. Maybe that's more likely because that ends the blue beast Ganon story before the Oot/Ww/Tp Ganondorf story starts.

Just as there are different Zelda's and Link's I believe there are also different Ganondorf's (assuming there's a timeline, of course).

Fs, Fsa, Alttp, La, Ooa/Oos: Blue beast Ganon with trident

Oot, Ww, Tp: Ganondorf

Zelda 1: Green beast Ganon

"Well, you say it yourself. If Adult link went back to the past, the events of the sages locking up Ganondorf into the dark realm never happened. So The windwaker could not have happened too, since it tells about Ganondorf escaping the dark realm."

He did return to the past, but he travels between times, he doesn't rewind time. Huge difference Henrie. He rewinded time in MM, but not in OoT.

The result? The time he left after defeating Ganon still existed, with an already written past once he closed the Door of Time. From the moment he left that "future", that world kept on going, it did not disappear, but when he returned, and the connection was severed, his new time in his childhood turned out different. From there, different paths were created. Completely unrelated ones.

The time Link left after the battle with Ganon was left to rebuild itself. Ganon was sealed away, but the hero disappeared (TWW's background). How did he disappear? He left that time...that's all there is to that. Ganon met no opposition when he escaped, so that's why it was flooded. No need to bring any ridiculous "evidence" from a different universe to say that the gods flooded the land because of them.

"We had a argument about the split-timeline before. I said it totally messes with my brain, while you said: "It's a fantasy world. Maybe time works different in that world. Maybe a split-timeline is possible in that world" "

How in the world did you get a hold of something that old o_O
I didn't understand it myself, I'm sure.

"If you talk about the timeline you have to take many things with a grain of salt."

I'll letter my responses to each as well.

A: He IS interested about them, even more so now than in the past. But like many others, gameplay usually takes priority over everything else. Without it whatever effort they put on anything else would be fruitless.

B: No, of course not. That actually points to him taking an increasing care for the story, trying to sort out everything, and having gone back on his original plan of Zelda 1, 2 and 3.

C: Your "in other words" is incredibly bad. What you said first doesnt mean the second. They dont come up with a loose story at the end of the development period and throw it in there. What they do, and its clear due to the games themselves, is come up with the core gameplay elements unique to the game, but they dont ignore the story until the end. How else would they still end with such an incredibly incorporated story among everything? Each new game that comes out shows this more (at least the console ones). TP, despite whatever faults it may have for cliched-ness or staleness, still did an incredible job at presenting the story.

D: Aaaand...that proves what? That their latest statement is not true? Or that they indeed dont care about the story?

E: Aonuma always says that Miyamoto has been standing back, watching the overall progress of the game. Aonuma takes care of the rest though. And you HAVE seen an increase amount of story-telling and presentation since he's been promoted on these Zelda projects. Its not just tidbits..plus that water-sage thing still makes no sense. It had to be one. If it was the Light Sage, it would explain why tehre were Light Arrows in the game? Or the Shadow Sage why Phantom Ganon returned!

"(and you don't believe it anyway)"

The last post seems reasonable. You even made a split timeline yourself, I dont know what the problem is.


MY problem is that one doesnt affect the other, and you're trying to prove that it does by saying that "Link never returned after MM" and "Ganon killed the Water Sage, so they flooded the land....IN ANOTHER DIMENSION"

In MM Link was what..10? 11? I dont see why people assume he never returns. I think Zelda's words and the ending of the game seem to indicate that Link found what he thought he was looking for and then returned home. Whether he did or not, though, is inconsequential because TP happened with no real connections to MM. I'd only point out the eye design of the Fused Shadow to that of MM, but eh...

And yea, the whole different dimensions thing.

Only "grudge" for your proposal is that I would not clump the FS games right after TMC. From the intro, it looks like the place where they find the sword has been in ruins for ages, abandoned. I think all that happens much later, actually. In which timeline, idk, but after Ganondorf is killed (he dies in TWW and in TP).

That's where you have the trident Ganon coming into the picture. I think you have to get rid of one completely before introducing the other, cuz then it wouldnt make us much sense, imo.

Id also guess on the child timeline because of K&K. They died in the other timeline, so it cant be them. And since they revive Trident Ganon, all the games featuring Trident Ganon should be either on the Child Link time or before OoT.

I'd clump the FS and FSA games after TP and before the Oracles. Maybe they're not right next to each other...actually FS im not sure where it falls, it was clearly more of a spin-off (other theories completely dismiss it). ALTTP has to be after FSA though

LoZ and AoL...not sure. There's also a pig Ganon and I think he has a Trident. My guess...considering the Link in ALttP would have saved the world too many times if its him there, in LA, in OoA, and in OoS, I'm guessing that (though it makes no difference in that regard in the end), he's the Link from the original two Zeldas.

ALttP didnt REALLY show if Ganon died completely or not. I mean, you can say he did, but there's more room for doubt than in other games. LoZ, though, makes an absolute, because his minions try to revive him in the next one, but they do fail, so...that's when K&K give it a go!

My proposal:

TMC -> OoT (splits into A and B)

A: MM -> TP -> FSA -> ALttP -> LoZ -> AoL -> OoA/OoS
B: TWW -> PH -> ST


I've also gotten the feeling that Timeline B seems to have been elft alone, like their free path to doing whatever they want, and leaving the adventures to teh cellshaded world. Timeline A is the one convoluted by every past Zelda.

"He did return to the past, but he travels between times, he doesn't rewind time. Huge difference Henrie. He rewinded time in MM, but not in OoT."

I never thought about it this way. But how do you know?

"How in the world did you get a hold of something that old o_O
I didn't understand it myself, I'm sure"

I just remembered it.

"How else would they still end with such an incredibly incorporated story among everything? Each new game that comes out shows this more (at least the console ones). TP, despite whatever faults it may have for cliched-ness or staleness, still did an incredible job at presenting the story"

That's true. But what I meant to say is that at nintendo gameplay comes always before the story. And while that doesn't lead to a bad story, it leads to a story that contains many details that make it impossible to place such a Zelda into a timeline.

But on the other hand, If they would do the story first we probably wouldn't get gameplay that is as fantastic as the gameplay we are used to.

"Aaaand...that proves what? That their latest statement is not true?"

Their latest statement is true...for now! But how long will it take before they change their minds? Not that long, I guess.

"I dont see why people assume he never returns"

I never said he didn't return after his Termina adventure. In fact I highly believe that he returned. But he returned AFTER Ganondorf was locked inside the Twilight realm. If he didn't go to Termina he could have stopped Ganondorf in one way or the other. But since he was in Termina, Hyrule had to do something else to stop Ganondorf. Hence the sages locked him up in the Twilight realm.

"That's where you have the trident Ganon coming into the picture. I think you have to get rid of one completely before introducing the other, cuz then it wouldnt make us much sense, imo"

That's why it is more reasonable that Ooa/Oos fits in the Fsa, Alttp, La, list. By the way: I do not think the Ganon from Zelda 1 had a trident.

And as I said before: If the mirror from Fsa is the same as the Twilight mirror, Fsa CAN'T be after Tp since in Tp the mirror was utterly destroyed by Midna.